The First Guy to Lose to Salesforce (And What He Did Next) with Kris Lawson

Before your buyer takes your call, their AI has already researched you, evaluated your solution, and started forming an opinion. The question isn't whether AI is changing sales. It's whether you're going to catch up to what's already happening on the other side of the table. In this episode, John sits down with Kris Lawson, the sales leader, founder of Ruby, and Snowflake alumnus, to unpack the most important shift in B2B sales that most people are completely ignoring. Kris was the first Oracle rep ever to lose a deal to Salesforce, went on to build and scale sales teams across some of the most iconic tech companies of the last 25 years, and is now building the AI-powered sales assistant he always wished he had. From how buyers are already using AI to screen vendors, to why generic AI tools will never replace purpose-built sales intelligence, to how to pick a rocket ship company before anyone else knows it's one, this conversation covers the ground that matters most right now. If you're in sales, leading a sales team, or building a company and trying to figure out how to win in an AI-saturated market, this episode will change how you think about what's coming. Visit and learn how you can Make It Happen. What You’ll Learn Why your buyer's AI is already evaluating you How OpenAI and Anthropic told one company to "just send the documentation" and let their LLMs decide The framework Kris uses to evaluate whether a company is worth joining Why the first Oracle rep to lose a deal to Salesforce ended up joining Salesforce Why the chat interface will never work for the average sales rep The build-vs-buy fallacy in the AI era and the real risks nobody is talking about How AI will reshape sales methodologies The rubber duck exercise and how to use AI to learn, not just execute Why choosing the right life partner is the most important career decision a salesperson will ever make Kris Lawson is a sales leader, entrepreneur, and co-founder of Ruby (heyruby.ai) — an AI-powered sales assistant purpose-built to help sales reps be excellent in every customer interaction. Kris has spent 25 years scaling go-to-market organizations at Oracle, Salesforce, Microsoft, and Snowflake. He was the first Oracle rep ever to lose a deal to Salesforce, went on to become a key early sales leader in Canada for Salesforce, and has since built and exited multiple sales organizations in the tech sector. He is also co-founder of Snow Angels, a Snowflake alumni investor syndicate focused on data and AI startups. Connect with Kris Lawson: Website: LinkedIn: John Barrows is a sales trainer, speaker, and founder of JB Sales with over 25 years of experience in the industry. He has made hundreds of cold calls a week, led startups to acquisition, and trained high-performing teams at companies like Salesforce, LinkedIn, Amazon, and Okta. Through JB Sales, John focuses on practical sales execution—helping reps fill pipeline, close deals, and build trust with buyers in today’s AI-driven sales environment. Connect with John Barrows: LinkedIn: Instagram: TikTok: Check out John's Membership: Join John's Newsletter:

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The First Guy to Lose to Salesforce (And What He Did Next) with Kris Lawson is an episode from Make It Happen Mondays - B2B Sales Talk with John Barrows by John Barrows.

This episode is 01:07:57 long.

This episode was published on Apr 27, 2026.

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