Otto Scharmer – Changing Systems

In this episode, Wendy speaks with action researcher, changemaker, and thought leader Otto Scharmer. Otto is a world leader in systems change, and his work across disciplines highlights how awareness and the quality of our relationships are critical for the change we need today. This conversation covers many topics, including: regenerative farming, social change movements, and the "social soil"; inspiration from Francisco Varela; presencing and the role of awareness in systems change; three divides that contribute to our current crises; the untold story of regeneration and renewal; action learning and action research; trends towards goodwill and lack of agency; institutions vs. individuals; the blind spot of the mindfulness movement; speaking and listening across ideologies; non-doing, action vs. reaction; the need for holding spaces and building trust; leading by letting go and letting come; releasing old ways of thinking (ego) and shifting to more integrated mindsets (eco); sensing and engaging with future possibilities; fourth-person awareness; the influence of Mind & Life on his career trajectory; and resources for learning consciousness-based transformation. Full show notes and resources

You can listen to Otto Scharmer – Changing Systems online on Radio and Podcast. Open the player on this page to stream the available audio.

Otto Scharmer – Changing Systems is an episode from Mind & Life by Mind & Life Institute.

This episode is 72:54 long.

This episode was published on Mar 13, 2025.

Yes. Use the heart button on the episode page to add it to your favorite episodes list.

Yes. This page shows related episodes from Mind & Life when more episodes are available from the podcast feed.