203 - Gender Clinicians Should Take the Family's Input Into Account, with Marieke den Ouden

Sasha and Stella welcome Dr. Marieke den Ouden, a medical biologist and psychologist, about pediatric gender medicine in the Netherlands. While the Dutch Protocol is believed to ensure thorough mental health evaluations, Marieke reveals inconsistencies in its application. She discusses a new survey gathering input from extended family on a child’s mental health and gender identity, raising questions about bias in reporting. The conversation also explores the clinical foundations of gender medicine, examining how early researchers with backgrounds in disorders of sexual development (DSDs) shaped the field. Their search for a biological basis of gender identity—whether in hormones, chromosomes, or brain structures—led to a medicalized approach to gender distress. This framing has contributed to the widespread push for medical interventions, fast-tracking youth into irreversible treatments despite a lack of clear biological justification. This episode presents fresh debates and critical insights into the ethical dilemmas surrounding pediatric gender transition and the protocols involved. For links and resources relevant to this episode, access the full show notes at Buy Our Book – When Kids Say They’re Trans: A Guide for Thoughtful Parents at Join Our Listener Community to Access Exclusive Content at Support the Show at Join the conversation on YouTube at For more information about Sasha’s & Stella’s parent coaching membership groups, visit: Sasha Ayad: Stella O’Malley: To learn more about our sponsors, visit: Therapy First at Genspect at This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit

You can listen to 203 - Gender Clinicians Should Take the Family's Input Into Account, with Marieke den Ouden online on Radio and Podcast. Open the player on this page to stream the available audio.

203 - Gender Clinicians Should Take the Family's Input Into Account, with Marieke den Ouden is an episode from Gender: A Wider Lens Podcast by Sasha Ayad and Stella O'Malley.

This episode is 69:23 long.

This episode was published on Jan 31, 2025.

Yes. Use the heart button on the episode page to add it to your favorite episodes list.

Yes. This page shows related episodes from Gender: A Wider Lens Podcast when more episodes are available from the podcast feed.