This Changes Everything #18: Redesigning the Art World

California's arts institutions are dealing with budget cuts and revenue shortfalls due to the pandemic, and a reckoning with systemic racism in the art world. So what progress have they made in diversifying their staffs, their artwork, and their audiences over the past year? And will any of us ever look at art, and the meaning of it, in the same way again? We talk with two people who present great works of art to the public, but do it in very different ways. GUESTS * Thomas Campbell, CEO and director of the Fine Arts Museums of San Francisco, and former CEO/director of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City ( * Andre Jones, a.k.a. Natty Rebel, designer, muralist and founder/director of the Bay Area Mural Program ( PODCAST PLAY-BY-PLAY * O to 4 min - Intro to California Groundbreakers, and to this episode PART ONE: Thomas Campbell * 4 min - Why Campbell, an Englishman who had a prestigious career in London and New York, decided to make the move to California * 7:40 min - How he views art in California, California art, and how we perceive it * 10:25 min - What Campbell learned about leading two top museums through two tough times in U.S. history * 14:20 min - How George Floyd's murder shaped Campbell's view of the art world, and his decision to create an anti-racist institution * 20:05 min - What should California's arts institutions be doing to create "blockbuster" exhibitions of non-white-male California artists? * 26:35 min - Diversifying museum staff and management - do they all need Masters and Ph.D degrees? * 31:15 min - How to make a museum's board of directors more diverse -- and still have a board that brings in the money needed to run the museum * 35:25 min - Using California's role as a technology hub to revolutionize art * 40:50 min - How the inaugural DeYoung Open brought in a new range of art and artists * 46:10 - What art institutions, and us art lovers, can do to support artists and make the art world more accessible PART TWO: Andre Jones * 51:20 min - What brought Jones from the East Coast to the Bay Area, and how his new home has inspired the way he creates art * 57:20 min - His approach to creating public art * 59:45 min - How the Bay Area Mural Program got started and is now expanding * 1hr, 2:25 min - How the events of 2020 made Jones take action as an artist and activist * 1 hr, 6:55 min - Is the new focus on diversity of art turning into more financial success for artists of color? * 1 hr, 10:15 min - Creating the new generation of artists * 1 hr, 13:40 min - Jones' recommendation for public art that really resonates today * 1:16:10 min - Jones' prediction for the future of public art in California, and how Californians can make that future bright RESOURCE GUIDE * Institutional Blog for the Museums of Fine Arts in San Francisco - * Black Liberation Walking Tour in Oakland - IMAGE CREDIT: "United We Rise" Mural in Downtown Oakland by Divya Bala (

You can listen to This Changes Everything #18: Redesigning the Art World online on Radio and Podcast. Open the player on this page to stream the available audio.

This Changes Everything #18: Redesigning the Art World is an episode from California Groundbreakers by California Groundbreakers.

This episode is 01:20:13 long.

This episode was published on Jul 18, 2021.

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