21.17: The Up and Down Escalators

Today we zoom out from moment-to-moment tension and look at how escalation and de-escalation shape a story at the structural level—how raising stakes, lowering pressure, and shifting focus can control pacing, reader emotion, and narrative momentum. Our hosts explore what happens when stakes escalate too quickly (and lose meaning), and how de-escalation can be used intentionally through humor, distraction, or shifting perspective. From miscommunication tropes to scene transitions to avoiding “pointless up-and-down” detours, we offer practical ways to keep your readers engaged while guiding them smoothly between emotional highs and lows. Homework: Map the major beats of your work-in-progress and label each one as either an escalation or a de-escalation across your plot lines. Then review that map to identify any “pointless up-and-down” moments—places where tension drops without purpose or without a corresponding rise elsewhere—and revise so that every shift either advances stakes, deepens character, or introduces a new layer of tension. Final WXR Cruise! Our final WXR cruise sets sail for Alaska in September 2026—get your tickets here ! Credits: Your hosts for this episode were Mary Robinette Kowal, Howard Tayler, Erin Roberts, and DongWon Song. It was produced by Emma Reynolds, recorded by Marshall Carr, Jr., and mastered by Alex Jackson. Join Our Writing Community! Writing Retreats Newsletter Patreon Instagram Threads Bluesky TikTok YouTube Facebook Our Sponsors: * Check out HomeServe: * Check out MasterClass: * Check out Talkiatry: * If you’re struggling with OCD or unrelenting intrusive thoughts, NOCD can help. Book a free 15 minute call to get started: Support this podcast at — Advertising Inquiries: Privacy & Opt-Out:

You can listen to 21.17: The Up and Down Escalators online on Radio and Podcast. Open the player on this page to stream the available audio.

21.17: The Up and Down Escalators is an episode from Writing Excuses by Brandon Sanderson, Mary Robinette Kowal, Dan Wells, and Howard Tayler.

This episode is 28:16 long.

This episode was published on Apr 26, 2026.

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