The Worried Writer Ep#61: Terry Lynn Thomas ‘You Have To Sit Down And Write’

Terry Lynn Thomas is a USA Today bestselling author with two historical mystery series. The Sarah Bennett mysteries are set in California during the 1940s and feature a misunderstood medium who is in love with a spy. The Cat Carlisle series is set in Britain during World War II and the first two books are called The Silent Woman and The Family Secret . The third book in the series, The House of Lies , comes out on 4th March 2020. For more on Terry Lynn Thomas and her work, head to terrylynnthomas.com or find her on Twitter , Facebook or Instagram . THANK YOU! As ever, huge thanks to everyone supporting the show on Patreon. Thank you so much! Join our growing Patreon community at The Worried Writer on Patreon . I love creating the podcast but it takes a significant amount of time (and money) to produce. If you want to help to keep the show going, please consider becoming a patron. You can support the show for just $1 a month! If you pledge $2 or more, you also receive an exclusive mini-episode that I put out in the middle of every month, plus instant access to the back list of twenty-four audio extras. LISTENER QUESTION I answer a question about how to practice writing from Alex Jovanovich. If you have any questions about writing, process, procrastination or the business side of things such as marketing or publishing options, email me , leave a comment on this post, or find me on Twitter . IN THE INTERVIEW The full transcript is copied below. THANKS FOR LISTENING! If you can spare a few minutes to leave the show a review on Apple Podcasts (or whichever podcast app you use) that would be really helpful. Ratings raise the visibility of the podcast and make it more likely to be discovered by new listeners and included in the charts. The Worried Writer on Apple Podcasts [Click here for step-by-step instructions on how to rate a podcast on your device] Also, if you have a question or a suggestion for the show – or just want to get in touch – I would love to hear from you! Email me or find me on Twitter or Facebook . INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT Sarah: Terry Lynn Thomas is a USA today best selling author with two historical mystery series. The Sarah Bennett Mysteries are set in California during the 1940s and feature a misunderstood medium who is in love with a spy. The Cat Carlisle series is set in Britain during world war two and the first two books are called The Silent Woman and The Family Secret . Welcome to the show, Terry, and thank you so much for joining me. Terry: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here. Sarah: Well, could you just kick things off by telling us a wee bit about your latest release, which I believe is coming out… This week as this show goes out! Terry: March 4th it releases. The book is called The House of Lies . It’s the third book in the Cat Carlisle mystery series, set in world war II in the United Kingdom, actually set in a fictitious village in the North. It’s called Ribbonby. I made it up, had a blast, and. I should differentiate between my historical mysteries, because they’re not necessarily about happenings in the war. There’s intrigue, but I mean, it’s fictitious based on my research. These are pretty much classic mysteries. I like to think of them as a cross between Faith martin meets Agatha Christie. I don’t write as well as Faith Martin or Agatha Christie, but that’s who I’m shooting for! So the third book in that series will be out March 4th, and we follow Cat Carlisle, who is a reckless woman with a feminist attitude, and she’s right there during world war II speaking up for those who can’t speak up for themselves. Sarah: Oh, that sounds fantastic. It sounds like my cup of tea. I’ll have to check them out. Terry: Thank you. I’ll send you a copy. Sarah: Oh, thank you. So we’re actually speaking, through the magic of smoke and mirrors, we’re actually speaking a few weeks before this podcast comes out and a few weeks pre-publication. So I just wondered, how are you feeling? Do you get pre-publication nerves? Terry: Oh my gosh, I get them around January. I think a lot of writers have what we call imposter syndrome, so I have to deal with that. You know, you’re worried that the reviewers won’t like it and your readers won’t like it, and there’s just so many things to worry about, but I try to focus on getting the book out there to the readers that will like it. It’s such a fine line to say, buy my book, buy my book, like everyone else. But really I want a commitment from my reader. It’s like, I want to give you a story and I would like you to read it. And if I’m lucky you like it. If you don’t like it, you know, God bless, move on to the next thing. You know, I have this thing, I started , I’m sure other people do it too, but it’s really all about the readers. And when I sit down to a blank screen, I’m thinking, my reader’s not going to like that sentence. And I go back and fix it. I mean, really, that’s why I have a job and it’s very important to me. So this year my focus and one of my goals is to really engage with the people who like my stories and engage with them about things that aren’t necessarily related to my writing. And when I think of it that way, it helps the pre-publication nerves because as you probably know this, and I’m sure other authors who are listening do, but on pub day, I’m checking my Amazon ranking every five minutes and checking facebook every five minutes. And you know, there’s… I’m a digital first author, so it’s not like I’m at a book signing with a bunch of people acting like I’m not nervous and drinking champagne, right? But I love it and it’s fun. And even though I’m nervous and worried, I still love the process. Sarah: I think that helps. So do you find that experience, knowing how you’re going to feel on the day and knowing that you do love it and knowing that you will hear from some readers and you’ll feel, you know, better and buoyed up by that – does all that really help now? Terry: So this is my sixth book that’s coming out, and I think that every release day is different. And I think writing is so interesting because you have a set of hurdles and you get past, and then there’s a new set of hurdles. And so by the time the book releases, I’m onto the next set of hurdles with a different book. And, I’m just… I get up in the morning on release day and, and tell myself that I’m just going to enjoy this and I have no expectations and then I’m not disappointed. But of course it’s, you know, it can be nerve wracking. I could flip a switch and get crazy nervous if I wanted to. It’s… Make the choice not to. Sarah: No, that’s great. That makes me feel less alone. I definitely relate to that. Terry: It’s funny how we all connect on social media because writing is such an introverted, solitary thing, and I think a lot of us are introverts, and so we love social media, and my sister is now on social media and she’s like, wow for an introvert, you’re very active on your Facebook page, and it’s like, it’s perfect. Sarah: It’s behind a screen. I’m in my pyjamas. There’s nobody physically with me. It’s great. Terry: Since I started writing full time, I have more pyjamas than street clothes. Sarah: Me too. So I’d love now to go back to the beginning. It’s the usual question. Did you always want to write? Terry: Always, but I didn’t, you know… Don’t be an artist, learn to type. I’m dating myself, but what we were, what I was told is get a job, learn to type, writers don’t make any money. And so I was a court reporter. I’m from the U S and then I spent the bulk of my career as a litigation paralegal working in the legal world. Always knowing I wanted to write, always had written, you know, novels and screenplays, got an agent, nothing happened, burned them, burned all that stuff. It’ll never see the light of day. And then my husband, we lived in San Francisco and he offered for me to move with him to Mississippi, which is in the Southern United States. Different culture. And he said, if you move with me, I’ll buy you a horse and you can write full time. And I said, okay. I mean, okay, what do you say to that? And so I started taking it… I started writing in earnest in 2006 and I made a commitment to sit down and write every day. And I wrote the Sarah Bennett mysteries. And these are the books that I love. Kind of like your ghost, your ghosty books, you know, The Secrets of Ghosts and The Language of Spells and The Garden of Magic Sarah: Thank you so much! Terry: I love those books of yours. Love Susanna Kearsley. And I also used to really love those books, like the Ace Gothics from the 1950s and 1960s where the woman’s in her nightgown running away from the castle. I love those books. And so I set out to write the Sarah Bennett books, which kind of, they’re kind of modern Gothics I would say. And then I wanted to write something different, and I love British mysteries, and I predominantly read British authors and watch British television, and I thought… Midsomer murders I love! And I just thought, I’m going to write what I love. And so I wrote a novella, the Cat Carlisle novella. And I responded to a submission call on Twitter and I submitted it to HQ and they said, no, thank you. And then a couple months later, Hannah Smith wrote and said, can you turn this into a novel? And I said, sure. And I did it, you know, I, and it was like, I’m going to do this. I’m going to do it in three months, and I’m, this is what it’s going to look like. And I did that. And, she really pushed me to get clear about my vision and what I wanted to write. And so the book released in April of 2018. So fast forward two months, my husband and I are camping in Colorado, the book comes out, no big deal. I didn’t expect a big deal. You know, I had no expectations. Right? So we come down the hill from camping and my Facebook is full of my friends saying, you’re on the USA today bestseller list. Couldn’t believe it! It’s like it was just one of those pinch me moments and talk about imposter syndrome. It took me a year to put USA today bestselling author on my Facebook page because it was… because I was like, it’s, it’s spot 132 – does that count? And they’re like, yes, yes, it counts. Go to your Facebook page and add that you’re a USA today bestselling author. So that book has been great, and I’ve had so much fun with Cat Carlisle. You know, she’s just so, um… I’m big on social justice, and people say, well, you’re a feminist, and it shows up in your writing. And it’s like, well, it’s not about feminism per se. It’s about being fair. And people that aren’t treated fairly, and since I’m a woman, of course, you know, it’s a feminist slant, but there’s other people that are marginalized, that should have their say too. So it’s fun to put Cat Carlisle who is reckless and does not follow the rules of British society. And she’s married to someone who is very well connected and she just, when they say Cat, when they say Cat don’t do this, she turns around and does it and she’s so much fun to write. So I’m really excited for this third book. It was fun. Sarah: I love that you write from the heart and write from your passions. I was going to ask you what led you to writing in your particular genres, and I was going to ask if you found it easy to pick a genre. And I love that you were saying it’s what you are loving, it’s what you would love to read. And, and I also love the Gothics, by the way, who is it? Nine Coaches Waiting by… Terry: Mary Stewart. Sarah: Mary Stewart. I love Mary Stewart. Terry: Oh my gosh. And I love The Ivy Tree, and Touch Not the Cat. Sarah: Oh yes. So good. So that’s great to hear because I always, I always say that people should write what they love, book of their heart, do what they’re passionate about, so I love hearing that. But in terms of it being historical, do you have to do a lot of research there, and if so, is that something you enjoy? Terry: I love research and I love getting lost down the rabbit hole. But once again, to make the distinction: my job, for my style of mystery is to have my readers know what it felt like to live during this particular time. I think that the generation who lived through world war II, especially in the UK, were heroic and brave, and there were the people up in the airplanes and my God, the women in the resistance and all those heroes that just… Your heart breaks at how brave and courageous they were, but then it was the sacrifice of the ordinary people who didn’t maybe make it into the newspapers, but that kept their chin up and with their meagre rations and carried on. And so my goal is to really make people know how the world worked at that time because I don’t want us to forget. And it’s really nice to spend 300 pages with people who do not have cell phones. Sarah: It’s quite handy when you’re writing mystery as well. Terry: Right. Right. Sarah: There are so many things and you think, Oh no, if you’ve got a mobile phone, then you would just get out of this situation… Terry: In five minutes! And also mistaken identity mysteries are so much fun in that era because you can move to a town and say, I’m Sarah Painter, and no one has a way of knowing back then. You know? So it’s just, those are, that’s a fun thing to do. Sarah: So let’s now delve into the nitty gritty of your writing process because I’m still obsessed with how authors spend their time. Do you write every day or keep business hours? Do you aim for a particular word count? What’s your process? Terry: Well, let me say that I’m obsessed with the way people do it too. I mean, I just, I really want to know it cause you, you wonder if you’re doing it right. You know, it’s like, am I doing this right? You know, am I missing something? Because you’re working home alone and I’m a very goal oriented person and that’s just how I, that’s my personal marker. So I definitely write a thousand words a day, Monday through Friday. Sometimes it’s two. You know, two is nice, a thousand’s great, you know? So I get up in the morning and resist the urge to get on social media. I often wake up at four or five and I get my words done. You know, I do two 45 minutes sprints. If my neck and wrists aren’t bothering me, I might do three. And I, um, I get up and I do my words and I feel like I’m finished for the day. I keep my head in my story, I think about stuff and what’s going to happen tomorrow. And I’m writing notes and marketing plans and stuff. And then I generally walk – I try to write for 45 minutes and then go walk a mile with my dogs. And that kind of clears the cobwebs. And then I come back and do another 45 minutes. I just try to really stick to that and then I give myself permission now and again to get up and say, Nope, I’m bingeing something on Netflix today. You know, that happens, but I try to reserve the weekends to hang out with my husband. He’s a musician, so we’re both artists. And, you know, he’s really supportive. It’s carving out the time. My, my whole writing career changed when I, when I was working full time, I got up and wrote from four to six every morning and I was really tired all the time. But it was worth it because you just… It’s the words, you just have to sit down and write. You have to sit down and write and give yourself permission to write bad prose, but keep going. You know? So that’s my, the main thrust of my process is to write every day. Now you’re going to ask me if I’m a plotter or a pantser, a discovery writer. Sarah: I am! Terry: You want me to answer? Sarah: Yes, please! So are you a discovery writer? Terry: I wish I… I admire discovery writers. I, and I also listened to Joanna Penn’s podcast and I’m like, I am going to try to do what those discovery writers do. And I just, I can’t do it. I tried. I am an anal retentive plotter. I work from a very, very, very detailed outline. I generally, and I give myself permission for the outline to change, but my writing struggles happen for me when I’m doing the outline. It takes me a month. Of working four or five hours a day. I generally do it long hand. I spend a week on the premise line, that one sentence, I mean, that’s like the hardest thing, and then I sit down and I work on that outline and I, that’s when it’s like, this isn’t going to work. I know this isn’t going to work and I can’t see how I can make it work. And so I move on to the next thing. Character sketches or my storyboard with my scenes and you know, I just, I really put my blood and guts into the outline. Then when I sit down to actually compose and write my prose – I’m knocking on wood right now, god willing – it flows, you know, because I’ve done so much work with the outline and when a sentence, when a scene doesn’t work and it’s just like this doesn’t work. I realize I don’t need the scene or it’s not, it’s not doing what I needed to do. And out it goes. And now, I mean, I’m working on my seventh book right now and I, definitely can feel that the outlining, it’s getting better, that doing that is getting better. And I just realized I’m just going to suffer through the outline, having my suffering happen with the outline, and then my sentences can come from a place of joy, you know? Sarah: Absolutely, I mean, that’s fascinating to me but I really truly believe that we all… We all outline in a certain way. We all do all the parts of the process, just at different times. And yeah, I suffer through the terrible first draft because I don’t plot at all and I don’t know what’s going on. And then I have to do so many rewrites. And I’m always cursing it and thinking, Oh, I wish I, I wish I could outline this to start with and, and get the pain then, but you get the pain at some point. That’s just how it is. It’s just hard Terry: And it’s so subjective and it’s so individual and you just really, you just need to do what works for you, because… Another thing that I struggled with when I made the decision to write full time is, you know, Americans, we have a 40 hour work week and executives on the move put in 50 hours. I mean, we work, you know, I don’t know what the climate is in the UK. I imagine it’s similar. And as an author writing too much is an issue of diminished return. If you, if you burn yourself out, your words won’t be pretty anymore. And it’s, sometimes I do my 2000 words and I think, you know, I could slip another session in and then I think, no, I’m going to be excited for tomorrow. And that’s something I’ve had to tell myself because I came to this job late and I most certainly do not want to burn out. I am not. I’m going to do it because I love it. You know? I feel like I’m finally old and I have a job I like, I’m going to treat that as a treasure and I’m going to enjoy it. I think it’s really important. Sarah: That’s fantastic. That’s such an important thing to say, and I think you’re right, that there is a culture of, of working hard, working long hours, but what you were saying there as well, what you hit on there is writing… Working hard for a writer doesn’t always look like what we think of as working. So if you’ve got 2000 words done in the in the morning, and it’s gone well, so you’re all, you know, you’re done. That’s because you did that incredibly intense, focused, hard, creative work. I don’t want to be rude about an admin task that doesn’t use quite as much brain power, but maybe that equates to six hours of admin work or something – which we do as well, I’m not, not putting it down, but it doesn’t look the same. From the outside, they look the same – you’re typing on a computer. And also we do stuff. You know we’re thinking, aren’t we, all the time thinking or watching Netflix to get refill the creative well, and that’s all a part of what we do. It’s all part of work. It just doesn’t feel like it all the time! Terry: Because it’s so much fun! Do you keep a notebook by your bed so when you wake up in the middle of the night, you can write down your ideas and stuff? Sarah: I do. I do write, I write notes in notebooks all the time, but I don’t often do it in the night anymore because whenever I used to do that, I would wake up and think: very important note, I must write it down and then the next day I would look at it and I had no idea why it seemed so important. It would be, you know, things like avocado dinosaur question mark, you know? But yeah, I do. I do make notes at other times. Do you find you get ideas in the middle of the night? Terry: I do. And I write them down and there are times, I’ve solved problems – you know, writing mysteries, it’s all about the plot. I have to just… And people are very sophisticated. And I really have to bring my A game to these mysteries that aren’t Gothicy ghost stories because mystery readers are extremely sophisticated and they will rip you. I mean, you know, they’re there, they’re watching, and I owe it to my readers to give them a good, honest story. And if I, my job is to trick them, I’m going to trick you. And when I get reviews that “I had no idea”. I have done that. I have done my job. That’s my goal. Sarah: So I know that – we were chatting just before we hit record – I know that your, your recent titles are published by HQ digital, is that right? Terry: Correct. Sarah: So what was your path to publication? Was it smooth sailing all the way? Terry: I finished the first book I ever wrote that was, I thought was publishable, was my ghost story called The Spirit of Grace . And I took it to the, uh, RWA conference in San Antonio in 2014 and I pitched the, you know, you go through all the agent pitches and every agent I talked to wanted a full, and I sent it. And the universe works in a very mysterious way because I also had… I heard from people, but I never got the emails. I had Yahoo, and I never got emails from people. And then this one lady from Black Opal books called me, you know, and she said, did you not get my email? We’d like to publish your book. And I just, I said, I’m just going to go for it. The little voice in my head said, get your book out there. I was thinking maybe I’d self-publish. And they signed a three book contract for the Sarah Bennett series. I got my rights back to those books and the second two books in the series weeping in the wings, and I’m sorry, it’s called The House of Secrets, and the third book is now called The Drowned Woman . Those are with HQ now. And they revamped and redid them and gave them a boost. And they’re doing, you know, they’re, they’re happy with HQ. I still have the rights to the first book, the Sarah Bennett series that’s out in audible. That’s available at Amazon. And so I had those books, and then of course, the Twitter… I responded to the Twitter submission at HQ. I needed the editorial support from a traditional publisher. That just works for me. I have a lot to learn still, and I am so impressed with these editors that I’ve had that just, I would never have thought of making the corrections that they, you know, and they really push you. And you get this editorial, your structural edits back, and you think, Oh dear God! And then you just sit down… Sarah: When you stop crying Terry: Right! And we’re never going to be able to do this. And then you just sit down and you just and when you’re finished, it’s . It’s amazing, the transformative process of the novel. But for me as a writer, it’s just been so awesome to be able to do that. And, so I’ve been happy with HQ and that’s where I am right now. Sarah: It’s such a fantastic way to learn isn’t it? I definitely agree with you. I feel the same way. I’ve learned so much through working with amazing developmental structural editors. It’s really tough, but it’s. Yeah. I can’t think of anything else that I have done, apart from writing lots of course, practicing, that has brought on my ability to write a book or, or know what goes in one. Yeah, completely agree. So I’m afraid the time has come. The title of the podcast is the worried writer, so I’m afraid I’m going to delve into your struggles with writing. Terry: I have a list. Sarah: Wonderful. Do you ever suffer from creative block and is there any part of the process that you find most difficult or when fear is most likely to strike? Terry: Fear comes… I have a niggle of fear that I need to deal with pretty much every day because I’m a, I’m a creative who, who writes stories for the food, you know, and stuff. And, but I really – I kind of hinted that I finally have a job I love – I really feel like I’m doing what I’m supposed to be doing. I didn’t quit my day job easily. It was a long, hard decision. And I just feel like as long as I sit down and write well, and like you were talking about in your interview with Meg Cowley of saving for the lean times and you know, just working hard. You know, I can let that fear go. I worry that I’m, you know, I’m not a USA today bestselling author. It’s like, that’s not me. You know, people say, aren’t you so excited? Oh my gosh. And it’s like, no, I have like, what happens if, you know, what happens if, and I don’t even want to say it out loud, but there’s so many ifs, you know, you’re, you’re really only as good as your next book on some level. I mean, you can’t… You can’t rest on your laurels when you write a really great book and turn it in, you have to start writing the next one and you have to have the, you know, I’ve got premise lines for 20 more mysteries. I know that I, I’ve saved them and I have an idea file and I know what’s going to happen and I keep a murder book and I know if I want to kill someone, they go in my murder book and you know, and I’m afraid no one will like my books. And, you know, I try hard and it’s so hard to, you know, to take the reviews with a grain of salt. I’m grateful for reviewers, but I am better off not reading my reviews. And it’s not fair to only read the good ones if you’re going to read them, you gotta read the good ones and the bad ones. So I’ve just decided that I’m not going to, I’m just not even gonna go there because I’m too sensitive. And I worry that I’m not doing it right. As I said, you know, the process, and it’s just so funny that, I mean, I love it so much, but there’s just so much worry about it. You know, there’s plenty to worry about. There’s plenty to worry about. It’s just the job, Sarah: The worries just keep on changing, don’t they? That’s… Whatever, you know, before you get published, you worry about, will I ever get published? And then you get published and there’s a whole new set of worries. And as you were just saying there, the, the sort of imposter syndrome, you don’t… because the USA today best selling thing happened to you, it immediately doesn’t feel real. When it happens to somebody else, it’s got a different sheen to it somehow. And so, yeah, absolutely. You’re very much not alone, but it is tough. And it’s also genuinely tough in that this business is so uncertain. You know, that thing of: will I get another contract and then this, my dream job could be over and I’m nodding away here, because I just empathize so strongly with you with that. That’s definitely how I felt and it was hellish. So, yeah. Terry: And I also think, you know, that’s the thing about writing. If you do it, you get better. The results are tangible, whether people like your stories or not. I see myself get growing and getting better as a writer, and I don’t think that ever changes, but I believe that your readers expectations go up, as your writing gets better, and then what if I can’t meet their expectations? That’s another thing, another thing I can worry about! Sarah: We’re so grateful for readers, but then we don’t want to let them down. So tough. And so do you have any sort of strategies, I mean, as you were just saying, it’s really a daily thing of conquering fears so that you can get your work done. Do you have any particular strategies that you use, when maybe these worries are coming up a bit too much and it’s stopping you from working? Or is there anything that you’ve developed or that you do to help you keep going? Terry: I started writing… The habit of writing the first thing when I get up in the morning and when I’m struggling out of sleep and I’d get, make my coffee and I sit on the couch, um, and I just write the words and that really helps because I’m, I’m in that state of mind of just getting out of bed and I get my work done. I get my work done and I find that I hit the sweet spot. But I, you know, when I… I made a list of stuff that I wanted to, you know, cause I know how you do your podcast and I, I made a little list of what I know, and this is kind of what I can, it’s kind of what I draw on and what I know about writing. And this is not a business for the faint of heart. I mean, if you want to sell your stories, for money, you know, you have got to toughen up. And most of us, I’m really sensitive and I think most artists on some level are because that’s how we’re able to do our art because we’re sensitive and you have to be able to take the constructive criticism. The House of Lies is up on net galley right now. And one reviewer, she gave me a good review, but she said that she thought the pacing was a little slow and I thought, okay, good. I’m making a note of that. And the book I’m writing on now, I used to do 2000 words scenes. I’m going to write 1500 words scenes, and I’m going to get to it. This is what needs to happen. And I’m, I’m going to tighten up my writing a little bit and see, I can always add words and I can always fix it when I edit, but I can, that’s, that’s good information. You know, you have to be able to take that information and work with it. And reading, of course, you know, we all know to read. And I’ve, I have discovered and fallen in love with audio books. I love them. I listened to them all the time. I just, when I’m in the car… we listen to music a lot cause I said my husband’s a musician, but, I have repetitive stress issues. So it’s hard for me to hold my Kindle and a book sometimes. I save my wrists for my writing and, that allows me to read and write and so many great books available at the library, and then the authors get paid. And, you know, I

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The Worried Writer Ep#61: Terry Lynn Thomas ‘You Have To Sit Down And Write’ is an episode from The Worried Writer Podcast by Sarah Painter.

This episode is 47:33 long.

This episode was published on Mar 1, 2020.

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