443 - Kale Zelden - There’s Still Time to Read the Great Books

Kale Zelden is a literature teacher and writer and in this video he joins me to discuss reading, the "Great books", and what it means to recover the reading tradition in a modern context. We talk about how to encounter old texts, what reading can contribute to our lives, and how to approach authors like Homer, Dante, and Shakespeare without reducing them to modern assumptions. We also explore the limits of the novel, modernism, postmodernism, irony, and the essential rediscovery of the epic. YouTube version: Kale’s Substack, The Underneath: Join us at the Symbolic World Summit | May 14-16 | Ohio | Keynote speakers: Jonathan Pageau, Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin, Kale Zelden, Annie Crawford, and Heather Pollington Buy your tickets: Learn more about Pavel Shchelin's phenomenal course on Plutarch, Live now: TIMESTAMPS 00:00 - Coming up 01:07 - Intro music 01:32 - Introduction 02:09 - The state of education 07:30 - First of all 10:47 - The power of analogy 13:11 - Select your curriculum 21:05 - What is canon? 33:24 - What are we moving towards 39:20 - Allegory 43:47 - What is modernism? 47:50 - Great books program 53:24 - What is the epic? BOOKS MENTIONED IN THIS DISCUSSION: 00:04:45 Augustine — Confessions — Spiritual autobiography, early Christian thought Plato — Dialogues — Philosophy of truth, justice, knowledge Aristotle — (various works) — Ethics, logic, metaphysics Church Fathers — (various writings) — Foundations of Christian theology 00:06:20 Anne Rice — (novels) — Modern popular fiction Shakespeare — (general works) — Foundational drama Beowulf — Anonymous — Old English epic poem 00:06:49 Plato — Dialogues — Rediscovered philosophical texts 00:07:32 Shakespeare — Hamlet — Tragedy of revenge and doubt Dante — Divine Comedy — Vision of Hell, Purgatory, Heaven Chaucer — Canterbury Tales — Medieval storytelling Mary Shelley — Frankenstein — Creation and responsibility Milton — Paradise Lost — Epic of the Fall 00:13:55 Kerouac — On the Road — Modern freedom and experience Camus — (e.g. The Stranger) — Existential philosophy 00:14:31 Homer — Iliad, Odyssey — Foundational epics Plato — Apology, Republic — Justice and philosophy Shakespeare — Romeo and Juliet — Tragic love Julius Caesar — Politics and betrayal Macbeth — Ambition and guilt A Midsummer Night’s Dream — Comedy and illusion King Lear — Suffering and authority Hamlet — Existential tragedy The Tempest — Reconciliation 00:16:21 Dostoevsky — Crime and Punishment — Guilt and redemption Dostoevsky — The Brothers Karamazov — Faith and morality 00:21:31 Voyage of St. Brendan — Medieval Christian voyage Apocalypse of Pseudo-Methodius — Apocalyptic text The Golden Legend — Jacobus de Voragine — Saints’ lives 00:21:58 Cervantes — Don Quixote — Satire of chivalry, early novel 00:22:51 Jane Austen — Pride and Prejudice — Social psychology 00:23:59 Milton — Paradise Lost — (revisited, epic psychology) 00:26:11 Faulkner — (novels) — Fragmented modern storytelling 00:33:41 C.S. Lewis — On Stories — Defense of story over psychology C.S. Lewis — Abolition of Man — Critique of modern values C.S. Lewis — Miracles — Defense of the supernatural 00:37:05 Sondheim — Into the Woods — Modern fairy tale deconstruction 00:38:55 Rabelais — Gargantua and Pantagruel — Satirical, playful text 00:44:06 Melville — Moby-Dick — Epic-scale novel Hemingway — The Sun Also Rises — Modern disillusionment 00:49:42 Ovid — Metamorphoses — Mythic transformations 00:46:13 (thinkers mentioned) Lyotard — Postmodern philosophy Derrida — Deconstruction Heidegger — Phenomenology 00:53:14 Virgil — Aeneid — Roman epic Bible — (Moses narrative) — Epic of calling and suffering 🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: 💻 Website and blog: 🔗 Linktree: 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast: -Spotify: -Apple podcasts: Our website designers: My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson:

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443 - Kale Zelden - There’s Still Time to Read the Great Books is an episode from The Symbolic World by Jonathan Pageau.

This episode is 64:35 long.

This episode was published on Apr 1, 2026.

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