Ep. 444: Heather McGhee on Racism, Zero-Sum Politics, and Why America Can't Have Nice Things

Heather McGhee is a leading expert in economic and social policy and the New York Times–bestselling author of The Sum of Us: What Racism Costs Everyone and How We Can Prosper Together . A former president of the think tank Demos, McGhee is a frequent commentator on national affairs and now serves as chair of the board of Color of Change, the nation's largest online racial justice organization. McGhee explores one of the central tragedies of American life: how a majority of white Americans have historically chosen to "drain the public pool," both literally and metaphorically, rather than share it with Black and brown Americans. This zero-sum, winner-take-all politics has left the nation less prosperous, less safe, less humane, and concentrated extraordinary wealth and power in the hands of plutocrats while undermining the American Dream for everyone else. She also reflects on the enduring lessons of the Black Freedom Struggle for resisting authoritarianism and building a more inclusive and democratic future in the Age of Trump and beyond. In this special Martin Luther King Jr. Day episode, Chauncey shares Dr. King's sermon on navigating fear in dark and dangerous times. WHERE CAN YOU FIND ME? On Twitter: On Facebook: My email: chaunceydevega@gmail.com HOW CAN YOU SUPPORT THE CHAUNCEY DEVEGA SHOW? Via Paypal at ChaunceyDeVega.com: Patreon:

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Ep. 444: Heather McGhee on Racism, Zero-Sum Politics, and Why America Can't Have Nice Things is an episode from The Chauncey DeVega Show by Chauncey DeVega.

This episode is 52:05 long.

This episode was published on Jan 20, 2026.

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