The Worker Power Missing From the Abundance Debate (with Kate Andrias and Alexander Hertel-Fernandez)

Everyone wants more housing, more clean energy, more transit, more care infrastructure, and more of the things people need to live good lives. But too much of the “abundance” debate treats workers, unions, environmental review, and community voice as obstacles to building — instead of asking who has power, who benefits, and who gets left out. This week, Goldy and Paul talk with Columbia professors Kate Andrias and Alexander Hertel-Fernandez about their Roosevelt Institute report, Democratic Abundance: An Abundance That Works for Workers. They argue that the problem isn’t too much democracy — it’s too little. If we want to build at the scale this moment demands, we need an abundance agenda that puts workers, communities, and democratic power at the center from the start. Kate Andrias is the Patricia D. and R. Paul Yetter Professor of Law at Columbia Law School, and serves as co-director of both the Columbia Law School Center for Constitutional Governance and the Columbia Labor Lab. Previously, she served as associate counsel and special assistant to President Barack Obama and as chief of staff in the White House Counsel’s Office. Alexander Hertel-Fernandez is an associate professor and vice dean at Columbia University’s School of International and Public Affairs, and serves as co-director of the Columbia Labor Lab. From 2021 to 2023, he served as a deputy assistant secretary in the Department of Labor and a senior fellow in the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs. Further reading: Report: Democratic Abundance: An Abundance That Works for Workers The American Political Economy: Politics, Markets, and Power State Capture: How Conservative Activists, Big Businesses, and Wealthy Donors Reshaped the American States and the Nation Website: Facebook: Pitchfork Economics Podcast Bluesky: @pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics Threads: pitchforkeconomics TikTok: @pitchfork_econ YouTube: @pitchforkeconomics LinkedIn: Pitchfork Economics Twitter: @PitchforkEcon, @NickHanauer Substack: ⁠The Pitch⁠

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The Worker Power Missing From the Abundance Debate (with Kate Andrias and Alexander Hertel-Fernandez) is an episode from Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer by Civic Ventures.

This episode is 34:26 long.

This episode was published on May 19, 2026.

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