Episode 127: Dr. Berel Dov Lerner "Human-Divine Interactions"

We sit down with Professor Berel Dov Lerner, finalist for the Rabbi Sacks Book Prize, to explore his phenomenal book Human–Divine Interactions in the Hebrew Scriptures: Covenants and Cross-Purposes. With a background in philosophy, Prof. Lerner examines how God’s project—creating a worthy world—intersects with humanity’s project of making life in this world more livable. How do divine and human interests become intertwined? How does God take human concerns into account? And how do we, in turn, project our own moral frameworks onto God, expecting to relate to Him on our terms? Our conversation ranges widely: from negative theology to the Ramḥal’s vision of humanity’s role in drawing divine abundance into the world through covenants and moral action. We ask whether God’s plan would be acceptable if it belonged to a human being, and we explore how the Flood and Sodom narratives reveal God “tying His hands” with moral imperatives. Why does God honor His covenant with Avraham even when Sodom fails to uphold the Noahide baseline? And how does the Berit Ben HaBetarim (Covenant of the Pieces) differ from other, more reciprocal covenants? We tackle imitatio Dei (imitation of God) in the context of Korah’s rebellion, and Rambam’s provocative claim that we must emulate the God of nature—not the God of history—while still confronting the reality of destruction in the natural world. Prof. Lerner offers a close reading of the seemingly genocidal command to wipe out Amalek, revealing that it may not mean what it appears to. We turn to Jonah’s inner conflict—his fear for Israel’s future under Assyrian oppression—and consider whether God’s use of the kikayon plant is a moment of divine sarcasm. Finally, we grapple with the Akeidah: Why does Avraham argue for Sodom but not for Yitzḥak? And what does his silence tell us about the real nature of this test? Tune in for Prof. Lerner’s surprising take. --- *This episode is dedicated to the refua shelema of Sarah Miriam bat Tamar, Binyamin ben Zilpa, and our dear friend Yaakov ben Haya Sarah Malakh --- • Bio: Dr. Berel Dov Lerner is an Associate Professor of Philosophy at Western Galilee College in Akko, Israel. He earned his BA in Social and Behavioral Sciences from Johns Hopkins University in 1980, his MA in Philosophy from the University of Chicago in 1982, and his PhD in Philosophy from Tel Aviv University in 1999. Born and raised in Washington, D.C., he has lived for decades in Kibbutz Shluhot in Israel’s Beit She’an Valley. He is married to Batheva Yaffa Lerner and has five children and several grandchildren. His areas of expertise include philosophy of religion, Jewish thought, philosophy of social science, biblical studies, and Jewish studies. --- • Get his book here: --- • Welcome to JUDAISM DEMYSTIFIED: A PODCAST FOR THE PERPLEXED | Co-hosted by Benjy & Benzi | Thank you to...Super Patron: Jordan Karmily, Platinum Patron: Craig Gordon, Rod Ilian, Gold Patrons: Dovidchai Abramchayev, Lazer Cohen, Travis Krueger, Vasili Volkoff, Vasya, Silver Patrons: Ellen Fleischer, Daniel M., Rabbi Pinny Rosenthal, Fred & Antonio, Jeffrey Wasserman, and Jacob Winston! Please

You can listen to Episode 127: Dr. Berel Dov Lerner "Human-Divine Interactions" online on Radio and Podcast. Open the player on this page to stream the available audio.

Episode 127: Dr. Berel Dov Lerner "Human-Divine Interactions" is an episode from Judaism Demystified | A Guide for Todays Perplexed by Ben Koren and Benzi Siouni | A Geonic-Maimonidean Approach to Torah Through the Ages and Today.

This episode is 01:05:50 long.

This episode was published on Aug 12, 2025.

Yes. Use the heart button on the episode page to add it to your favorite episodes list.

Yes. This page shows related episodes from Judaism Demystified | A Guide for Todays Perplexed when more episodes are available from the podcast feed.