The Score: Gamifying the Nature of Metrics with Thi Nguyen

In this conversation, the discussion with C. Thi Nguyen revolves around the nature of metrics, qualitative knowledge, and the duality of scoring systems, particularly in the context of climbing. The speaker shares personal experiences with climbing as a case study to illustrate how scoring systems can both enhance and detract from the experience. The conversation delves into the beauty of climbing, the subtlety of value in metrics, and the importance of savoring moments in games. It also explores the tension between purpose and game mechanics, the role of enjoyment, and the complexities of scoring systems in both games and life. Ultimately, the conversation highlights the challenges of balancing values in decision-making and the risks associated with the gamification of various aspects of life. Takeaways Metrics can miss the subtlety of qualitative knowledge. Scoring systems can enhance or detract from experiences. Climbing serves as a unique case study for scoring systems. The beauty of climbing lies in its scoring system. Values can become obscured when metrics are prioritized. Games allow for exploration of different scoring systems. Achievement play focuses on winning, while striving play values the process. External expectations can pressure individuals to conform to metrics. The addictive nature of games can lead to negative experiences. Chapters 00:00 The Intricacies of Portability and Judgment 01:12 Introduction and Social Media Presence 03:40 The Value of Climbing and Scoring Systems 07:16 The Impact of Numbers in Climbing 09:42 Savoring the Moment vs. Obsession with Scoring 10:59 Goals vs. Purpose in Games 12:39 Understanding Value Capture 17:53 The Shift in Standards of Success 20:33 The Limitations of Metrics 21:42 Games as a Reflection of Human Desire 24:37 The Purpose Behind Scoring Systems 26:07 The Magic Circle of Games 29:15 Achievement Play vs. Striving Play 34:47 When Games Become Unsafe 38:21 The Pitfalls of Portability in Metrics Follow Thi on Twitter , Bluesky , and find his website . You can get his book here .

You can listen to The Score: Gamifying the Nature of Metrics with Thi Nguyen online on Radio and Podcast. Open the player on this page to stream the available audio.

The Score: Gamifying the Nature of Metrics with Thi Nguyen is an episode from Breaking Math Podcast by Autumn Phaneuf & Noah Giansiracusa.

This episode is 57:42 long.

This episode was published on Jan 14, 2026.

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